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Interesting that the Odyssey has gotten slower (it must have gained weight). I remember when the 3rd gen (2nd of the full size generations) released, it was in the high 14s in the quarter mile. Good job Honda /s.

I'd never convince my wife to drive a minivan anyways, so, really, how about that Tribeca successor?
 
It just won't be coming soon enough for me. That's why I'll probably end up with a Sedona. I don't really like many other vehicles. The old Pilot was too boxy, and the new one looks too much like a Highlander. I considered the Highlander because it has a hybrid version, but it's just not that roomy inside. With 4 kids, the minivan package is what I need.

Maybe in two to four years, after the new Tribeca is out and has proved itself, I'll jump back to Subaru. (though I might grab another Legacy for my daily driver if they put a 2.0 or 2.5 DIT in it. I'm totally fine with the HT-CVT, since I have to deal with Atlanta traffic.)
 
Well, it happened. I headed over to one of the Kia dealers near me and bought a 2016 Kia Sedona SX.
It looks sorta like this:



Heated & Cooled front seats, heated middle row side seats, middle row jump seat (8-passenger option), adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, blind-spot vehicle detection, 360-degree camera view when backup up and going forward (less than 5 mph) (wide-angle cameras in grill, tailgate, and under side mirrors), HD radio, SiriusXM radio, coolbox chilled glovebox, sunshades on middle and rear side windows, tinted windows all around, 110 volt outlets middle row and rear cargo area, bluetooth phone connection, smartphone app to check vehicle stats & vehicle locator, heated steering wheel, and more.

This thing has toys to keep me distracted for months, maybe even until the next-gen Tribeca gets here. :lol:

Edit: Oh, also power folding side mirrors, with vehicle indicator in the mirror. The indicator lights up when someone's beside me.
 
Engine opttions, maybe a turbo

My guess is they would go with a 4cyl turbo possibly from the Forester 2.0xt and add on an electric motor to help with low end torque, leaving the turbo for midrange passing. That way they can keep the overall fleet EPA within gov't guidelines.
Or modify the twin scroll turbo for more low end.
 
My guess is they would go with a 4cyl turbo possibly from the Forester 2.0xt and add on an electric motor to help with low end torque, leaving the turbo for midrange passing. That way they can keep the overall fleet EPA within gov't guidelines.
Or modify the twin scroll turbo for more low end.
I am expecting them to go this route too. I don't see how else they can have sufficient power output for a bigger vehicle while keeping MPG's high enough. Unless they have something crazy and unknown up their sleeve. I expect that 2.0 turbo hybrid setup with the next STI as well. Just my guess. It'd make sense.
 
They may also go with the revised or DIT 2010-2012 LGT motor 2.5 with a low mount turbo, for packaging and low end power. I just don't see a 2.0 being able to pull around that much weight without being in boost. Not a huge difference in size I know but it helps.

Personally, I expect a hybrid H6 drivetrain with the HT-cvt. But as far as the exiga, if you look at the reviews on it you can really see it isn't sized for the US market I would put it at a small midsize wagon. I expect the new 7 passenger will be built on a scalable global platform and will share powertrains with probably the future outback/legacy models.
 
They may also go with the revised or DIT 2010-2012 LGT motor 2.5 with a low mount turbo, for packaging and low end power. I just don't see a 2.0 being able to pull around that much weight without being in boost. Not a huge difference in size I know but it helps.

Personally, I expect a hybrid H6 drivetrain with the HT-cvt. But as far as the exiga, if you look at the reviews on it you can really see it isn't sized for the US market I would put it at a small midsize wagon. I expect the new 7 passenger will be built on a scalable global platform and will share powertrains with probably the future outback/legacy models.
A hybrid H6 would be pretty cool. That would probably be the most 'appropriate' motor for an SUV of that size. You are right on the 2.0 turbo though. I didn't think it through before but you're probably right that it would need to be in boost constantly to maintain decent drivability. Lots of downsides to that needless to say.

The 2010-2012 LGT had a different turbo mount position than the 05-09? Really? If that is true, I have no idea how I that slipped past me. Sounds intriguing for a larger vehicle application.
 
A hybrid H6 would be pretty cool. That would probably be the most 'appropriate' motor for an SUV of that size. You are right on the 2.0 turbo though. I didn't think it through before but you're probably right that it would need to be in boost constantly to maintain decent drivability. Lots of downsides to that needless to say.

The 2010-2012 LGT had a different turbo mount position than the 05-09? Really? If that is true, I have no idea how I that slipped past me. Sounds intriguing for a larger vehicle application.
Yes, the 2010+ LGT turbo and location is a surprise to a lot of people...http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2010-lgt-engine-pics-turbo-manifold-tmic-112786.html
 
That's wild. Am I off or is that in a similar location the FA20 turbo?
Similar, but the FA20 is smaller with tighter packaging and an inherently smaller turbo which I believe is twin scroll where the LGT is single scroll...interestingly enough though the header on the LGT is for a twin scroll turbo. In any case, the LGT has decent low rpm grunt but fuel economy can be rather abysmal especially with a happy foot. I have averaged 23 mpg city and hwy mixed, city only puts me about 12-15 mpg. I can imagine with another 1000 lbs to haul around that would drop considerably without some kind of hybrid setup and start/stop system.
 
I am pretty heavy on my LGT foot and never see below 23 mpg. i have never run a tank totally town driving though, but it's 'country roads' not highway.

I still need to get it tuned which will likely have an effect on mpg.
I live about 1.5 miles from my work with 5 stops minimum in between...my worst tank was 13.9 mpg which was my last one almost all work to home and back. My best tank have been 28-29 mpg mostly highway with some city, overall I am around 20mpg average. Our tribeca is usually around 17-18 mpg but my wife drives about 15 miles one way to work with minimal stops. Freeway the legacy will get into the 30s and the tribeca sits right around 22-23 mpg.
 
Similar, but the FA20 is smaller with tighter packaging and an inherently smaller turbo which I believe is twin scroll where the LGT is single scroll...interestingly enough though the header on the LGT is for a twin scroll turbo. In any case, the LGT has decent low rpm grunt but fuel economy can be rather abysmal especially with a happy foot. I have averaged 23 mpg city and hwy mixed, city only puts me about 12-15 mpg. I can imagine with another 1000 lbs to haul around that would drop considerably without some kind of hybrid setup and start/stop system.
Interesting stuff. Even with the FA motors being more efficient, I'd be surprised if a 7 pax with the FA20 would get MPG's that are satisfactory. They'd probably be better off sticking with the EZ36 CVT like on the Outback over that, drivability aside.

I live about 1.5 miles from my work with 5 stops minimum in between...my worst tank was 13.9 mpg which was my last one almost all work to home and back. My best tank have been 28-29 mpg mostly highway with some city, overall I am around 20mpg average. Our tribeca is usually around 17-18 mpg but my wife drives about 15 miles one way to work with minimal stops. Freeway the legacy will get into the 30s and the tribeca sits right around 22-23 mpg.
22-23 MPG isn't bad for the Tribeca. I think I’m averaging worse than that on the highway in mine. Closer to 20 MPG’s I’d say with lighter than stock wheels and Toyo all-season tires. Maybe I need to change the spark plugs :confused:
 
I have never seen 22-23 consistently fm either of mine.

The current one just did 4,300 mi road trip this summer at 19 mpg with a 1,000lb trailer and moderate internal load for 2/3 of that. In town it can be as bad as 15 on a short-hop routine in extreme heat.

The 5EAT Outback with BFG TA KO2 tires achieved almost 22 average over 1,900 miles in much tougher conditions (mountains, 4x4 trails).

One thing I have noted is that our H6 cars are minimally impacted by things like tires, trailers, or external accessories. The H4s suffer much more significant mpg loss.
 
I have never seen 22-23 consistently fm either of mine.

The current one just did 4,300 mi road trip this summer at 19 mpg with a 1,000lb trailer and moderate internal load for 2/3 of that. In town it can be as bad as 15 on a short-hop routine in extreme heat.

The 5EAT Outback with BFG TA KO2 tires achieved almost 22 average over 1,900 miles in much tougher conditions (mountains, 4x4 trails).

One thing I have noted is that our H6 cars are minimally impacted by things like tires, trailers, or external accessories. The H4s suffer much more significant mpg loss.
Good to know. I have been really impressed with the 3.6 actually. It's the first H6 I've driven or owned and I really like it. It is making me second guess whether I may want an Outback 3.0 or an XT as my next car. I love turbos to death for the experience, modding potential sound and of course, the hood scoop :) but the H6 has great drivability and is definitely lower maintenance than a turbo. I'd be limited to the 5EAT going that route but I'm not sure I want another manual as my daily anyhow. I bet the H6 provides very satisfactory power as well with the smaller Outback. I know the 3.0 is a little weaker and requires premium but that wouldn't really deter me from considering it. I assume the 3.0 and 3.6 are pretty comparable in most ways? The 3.6 being slightly better overall? I want a 08-09 Outback so I'd be limited to the 3.0. Not really interested in going newer than that for my next car.
 
I have had an 05 XT outback and have an 08 Tribeca and 2010 LGT.

I would go the 3.0 outback over the XT. The XT was fun to drive, but when weighted against the reliability of the 3.0 and the fact that the suspension of the outback doesn't really let you enjoy the XT as much (too much body roll and wheel hop), it starts to loose the shine. The most important reason to go XT would be for the manual, but the difficulty of finding one and the cost associated with the desirability would be a deterrent for me.

I see you have the WRX/STI listed as options. I would line out the XT and weight them as fun cars vs the 3.0 for practicality. The STI with the 2.5 is nice, the WRX with the 2.0 is a little less exciting to me. I really enjoy my LGT as a daily driver but have a 25 min rural road commute for the most part.
 
I have had an 05 XT outback and have an 08 Tribeca and 2010 LGT.

I would go the 3.0 outback over the XT. The XT was fun to drive, but when weighted against the reliability of the 3.0 and the fact that the suspension of the outback doesn't really let you enjoy the XT as much (too much body roll and wheel hop), it starts to loose the shine. The most important reason to go XT would be for the manual, but the difficulty of finding one and the cost associated with the desirability would be a deterrent for me.

I see you have the WRX/STI listed as options. I would line out the XT and weight them as fun cars vs the 3.0 for practicality. The STI with the 2.5 is nice, the WRX with the 2.0 is a little less exciting to me. I really enjoy my LGT as a daily driver but have a 25 min rural road commute for the most part.
Good feedback, thank you for that. Are/were your OBXT and LGT manuals?

I love Legacy’s and would strongly consider one but they are harder to find in wagon form and I really want to stick with a wagon/hatch. And forget about finding a LGT wagon in a manual, lol. The downside to the STI is the price, but it is obviously the most fun. I have driven a few STI’s and a LGT and OBXT, and I agree, the 2.0 vs the 2.5, and also the turbo size differences make a HUGE difference. I see the ideal being an OBXT with suspension mods to have the ultimate blend of fun and utility, but then I have to deal with suspension mods on an OBXT, which are do able, but it sounds like it is a pain. I don’t need a track car, but something that can take a turn would be nice while retaining the trunk and having some power. The STI is tempting but with family space needs, I think I’ll end up with 08-09 Outback of some kind an look into modifying it to make it a little more fun. Also, the huge price difference between an Outback and STI would save plenty of money for the mods :D
 
My 05 XT was an auto, and was what sold me on turbos and fun driving cars. I had no idea at the time. I just through a car got me from here to there.

All 2010-2012 LGT's are 6 speed manuals. They haven't made an LGT since 2012 and none are wagons. 2005 was the last wagon legacy (lower than outback).

I too do not want a track car, but the 05-09 XT suspension was tough to deal with even as a daily driver in the mountains/curves of colorado and wanting to go fast-ish.

I would talk with traildogck over on subaruoutback.org when you get serious enough to consider buying to get a sense of cost. He's in pretty deep with his mods (20k?) but has going whole hog in. He will be happy to tell you the best setup for what you want, which will save you boatloads :)
 
The wonderful thing about Subarus is the suspension is all pretty much the same, so changing the shocks/springs on an outback is no different than doing the same on a legacy. Its just a bit higher off the ground.

Personally, I think the 2005-2009 legacy/outback is too small for a family the 2010+ is much more roomy and prices will not be drastically different. I think my legacy has more 2nd row room than our tribeca.
 
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