synthetic oil

[ed@konceptracing.com]

anyone switch from dino to synthetic oil? i do it on my STI, but was wondering about the B9.

[Peaty]

I'll do it but I wait till the motor has 10K miles. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on waiting. All I can say is I've done it on my F-XT (and many other scoobies) and my oil analysis says the motor is healthy, so I can say for sure it won't hurt :)

[ed@konceptracing.com]

to save some $$, i'll probably just stick w/ the regular dino oil, its not like the B9 is a performance car or anything, and with gas prices as high as they are, have to try and save $$ somewhere.

[HB_Dad]

to save some $$, i'll probably just stick w/ the regular dino oil, its not like the B9 is a performance car or anything, and with gas prices as high as they are, have to try and save $$ somewhere.

Its sad when oil prices are through the roof and one cannot get Synthetic oil because real oil is STILL cheaper... :tdown:

[stirrulespr]

Just change the oil on my B9 (14,600miles) for the second time and this time use M1 15W50 Gold , just wondering if using the 15W50 will make any difference on my B9 engine reliability.

Thanks, :confused:

[Peaty]

I doubt it, why did you go so high in viscosity though? I changed mine again yesterday (18K miles) and I used 5W-30, the only negative I can see is your mpg's may suffer slightly. I'm getting better at changing the oil on this thing, no mess at all this time. I do have the oil drain valve though :) Changed the air filter too, it was a lot dirtier than I thought it would be. Doing a Scoobymods page soon for anyone interested.

[pqspin]

Yesterday, I did Valvoline synthetic 5-30W for the first time. I had some sticker shock at the $59.95 charge, but listening to some automotive experts over the past few months, they all say synthetic is the way to go to protect your engine.

[cash911]

I did the first oil change to my B9T and used Mobile 1 Synthetic 5W30. It felt like there was a horsepower and torque increase, but maybe my car is just breaking-in a bit. I will probably use Royal Purple next time.

[njjuliano]

Doing an oil change is one of the reasons I have the Subaru Card, for the Subaru Bucks. Dont want to pay for it, though not willing to do the work that's involved, the bucks was my answer.

[sweetpete]

Long-time Mobil 1 user here. Switched to M1 5W-30 at 5k miles, as I've done with all the vehicles I've owned over almost the last 15 years. No engine problems whatsover. Just curious - why did you ignore what the owner's manual (and Subaru's engineers) recommend (5W-30)? Nothing to worry about - you won't do any harm to the engine, but you mileage may suffer.

[DubyaSTI]

We switched to synthetic involuntarily at about 6k. The gf was going away for a week so she had her mom drop it off at a local dealership that we've never used. When she got back she saw the bill and nearly fell over. Apparently they decided it was time to switch. :tdown: I was planning on holding off until 10k.

Oh yeah, they also decided not to fill it up all the way, so I had to go out and buy another 2 quarts to finish what they started. :tdown::tdown:

$68 oil change that was done wrong. :tdown::tdown::tdown:

BTW the brand they use is Castrol Syntec 5w-30, I'll be swapping out to Amzoil 5w-30 next oil change.

[Huskylord]

Hi I'm new here.
I just picked up an 08 5seater limited.
The dealership told me Subarus don't work well with synthetic (it actually causes problems with some vehicles). They said just stick with 5w-30 regular.

I'm confused now.

[Peaty]

The dealer is handing you a line, our dealer will offer synth with their oil changes if you like. I say wait till 10K to go to synth though.

[Magic Marker]

I have to ask why everyone is suggesting that B9's should go synthetic after 10k? Is there a problem using standard oil for the life of the vehicle?

[Peaty]

You will get all sorts of opinions on when to switch. I feel the car needs to use dino oil at first to allow for proper breaking in and mating of the parts. Personally I think synth is too slippery to let this happen effectively. I can say for sure that waiting to switch will not hurt anything as I've had oil analysis tests done on my scooby motors and it shows they are healthy after doing this.

I have some info here:

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3014

Down the page and my oil analysis here:

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4718

[B9LTD83]

Any thoughts on 0w-30?

[bionicbadger]

Any thoughts on 0w-30?

Generally, the wider the range (0-30 in this case) the easier/sooner the oil will start to shear. If you change your oil every 3,000 miles though (5K km) then you don't really have to worry about it.

0 weight oil is good in the winter if you live in a cold area since it flows more easily.

[Andrey]

Mobile 1 everywhere: engine, front diff, tranny, rear diff, OEM coolant, after 4K or 5K - do not remember exactly. I am a big fan of Royal Purple but, here in Boston it is tuff to find it so I've decided to go Mobile 1. My Isuzu VehiCROSS was all Royal Purple and you will not believe me what a difference (milage, noise quality of lube) it makes untill you try it yourself. I got into unfortunate accident in VX tearing apart tranny, rear diff - Mechanic who tried to save VX for me asked me what I've used as he never seen so little wear.....

[Magic Marker]

Hmmm, well I've never used synthetics in any of our cars. Maybe I'll switch when the B9 gets older.

[crazycanuck]

Our b9 has 108,000kms about 60K in miles on it, just switched to synthetic, so far so good.

[snork]

I don't disagree that synthetic oils are actually better. But this isn't a performance car and as long as you keep up with the fluid changes, regular oil will do you just fine. I've got 161k on my 03 Accord, regular changes every 4-5k (7.5k is the recommended) and the oil in it right now still looks as good as day 1.

[swootton]

I just spent 2 and 1/2 months researching oil grades, specifications and quality for the shop I manage. First off let me dispell a few misconceptions that many people have about oils and the dino/synthetic controversy.

All oils are made from the same crude oil that comes from the ground, regular, semi-synthetic and full synthetic. The only difference is the refining process. Technically any oil that has a GF-4 rating qualifies to be classified as Semi-Synthetic.

Subaru does not have any specific requirement other than GF-4 or SM service ratings. These are the lowest ratings any oil can have and still meet SOME vehicle requirements.

Many manufacturers have additional specifications that need to be met including Ford, Honda, GM, VW, MB, BMW and others.

I challenge any of you to go into WalMart, Target or any other chain store and look at all the bottles of oil and see how many specifications they have. Most of the bottles they have only have the two lowest specifications on them.

And this includes many of the Major or Trusted Brands. You really need to read the bottle carefully. There are some synthetics that don't meet the needs of some of these other specifications so why would you UPGRADE to them?

I can post more specific information if requested and I will be attending a full day training class at the end of July about fluid specifications.:cool:

[snork]

I completely agree with swooton. My Dad's a mechanical/environmental engineer and is up on all the oil specs in regards to engines and such. We put regular oil in all our cars except my Dad's Audi Allroad (twin-turbo V6) which specifically calls for synthetic oil.

[hawker800mech]

I would be interested in knowing how Mobil 1 stacks up with its specs since it is widely used as a "good" synthetic. That's what I run in both of my Subies.

[swootton]

Just to update your request on Mobil one, see this link http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp#SpecsApprovalsTitle for specific specifications. As you can see it does meet most of the current Domestic requirements but does not meet any Europeon specifications.
If you only want to meet theses specifications Castrol GTX which is not a synthetic meets all of these same specifications at 1/2 the price.
One thing to keep in mind, read the label or check the website for specifications.

[Andrey]

For several years (as soon as Mobile 1 Extended became available 1 year/15k service) I am using on my commercial minivan. I am driving only 4-5 K a year. So next oil change it is the same - Mobile 1 Extended and Mobile 1 Extended filter.

[Magic Marker]

My dealer told me not to bother with Synthetic.

[Andrey]

it is very simple -either you drive too hard then USE synthetics or (like myself) do not wanna bother - use synthetics once a year and forget about the rest. I make maybe 5k-7k per year. If I go 55-60 mph on the highway I am avereging 25.5 mpg Anybody can go to the junkyard and see that almost all engines on junked cars are running fine after 100+K use mineral oil and change every 3K or even 5K (chemical tests will show that oil is still lubricating after 5K OK) so Synthetics is just piece of mind nothing else. What bothers me though is that when I put in required amount of oil and new filter on the dipstick it shows half between E---F and after long trips I usually have to add 025-0.5 of quart as oil goes away (no leaks, no oil in coolant, exaust is not wet, no blue smoke... nothing). I called Subaru and they said to take it to dealer for tests.:Dunno:

[pearlyb9]

I am a mechanic at an English car repair shop in NC. We use a wide range of oils, specified by the manufacture. Most of our applications call for some form of Castrol. The best dino oil is Castrol GTX, period.
There are too many variables in synthetics to say which is the best as many of them have extremely varying specs, becuase there is no industry standard for calling oil synthetic. It is decided by the oil manufacturer. They are all from the same crude oil stock. It is the amount of "additives" that dictate full or semi- synthetic.

As for switching your car over tp synthetic oils you must "bed" in your engine wth dino oil. Basically you need to break-in your engine with the dino oil because most of the synthetics additives do a much better job of attaching polymers and other additives to metal parts, e.g. pistons and cyl. walls, that help make the oil "more slick". This adverssly affects the engines ability to properly seat all moving parts. So changing from dino to synthectic after 5k is plenty of time and since all synthetics are made from the same crude oil stock you can switch over at amy time.

As for the guy who put 15/50 into his car you can generate engine failure problems by putting in too heavy a weight(15) of oil. Becuase your vehicle has certain clearances built into the rod bearings, piston bearing, oil pump, etc. You can generate too much oil pressure, cause oil pump gears to sheer if the temp is too cold and the oil is very thick. All of these things creazte more drag on your engine and cause lower fuel economy at the very least. Always look in you owners manual to see what range the manufacturer recommends for the season and conditions you are driving in.

[highwayman]

Dino oil changed every 3K would be the better route. I'm not a big fan of synthetics myself, Id prefer to see someone change the oil every 3K, keep fresh oil in it & get the eyes under the hood for potential problems. I've seen vehicles go to synthetics tend to burn/leak oil. Honestly guys oil related engine failures are few & far between these days (running the thing out of oil is not what I'm talking about here). You're more likely to have cooling,elect, computer, basically any other system problems long before you have an oil related engine failure. Keep the money in your pocket & stick w/the OEM designated weight of Dino oil. If you sleep better knowing you spend 65.00+ per oil change then "as you were".

[pearlyb9]

Couldn't agree with you more Highwayman!! Most oil related engine failures are due to poor oil maint. If engine oil is changed at 3000 mile intervals you can expect long engine life. These claims that some auto maufactures are throwing around of 5,00 and even 7,000 mile oil change intervals is rediculous. Ask them what chnaged in their technology that made this amazing feet possible. They have bean counters who have found that it looks good because it "lowers" maintenince costs and that the average car owner doesn't keep a car for nearly as long as people used to. They are counting on the original consumer to trade out of the vehicle before any noticable damage to the engine is detected.

[swootton]

For several years (as soon as Mobile 1 Extended became available 1 year/15k service) I am using on my commercial minivan. I am driving only 4-5 K a year. So next oil change it is the same - Mobile 1 Extended and Mobile 1 Extended filter.

I know this is a late reply to your post but I just returned from an all day oil class and something interesting is that the extended life Mobil 1 is actually a lower quality oil than the standard Mobil 1. Given the choise I would stick with the normal Mobil 1 but not extend the change interval past the 7,500 miles that Subaru lists for noraml service.

[swootton]

I am a mechanic at an English car repair shop in NC. We use a wide range of oils, specified by the manufacture. Most of our applications call for some form of Castrol. The best dino oil is Castrol GTX, period.
There are too many variables in synthetics to say which is the best as many of them have extremely varying specs, becuase there is no industry standard for calling oil synthetic. It is decided by the oil manufacturer. They are all from the same crude oil stock. It is the amount of "additives" that dictate full or semi- synthetic.

As for switching your car over tp synthetic oils you must "bed" in your engine wth dino oil. Basically you need to break-in your engine with the dino oil because most of the synthetics additives do a much better job of attaching polymers and other additives to metal parts, e.g. pistons and cyl. walls, that help make the oil "more slick". This adverssly affects the engines ability to properly seat all moving parts. So changing from dino to synthectic after 5k is plenty of time and since all synthetics are made from the same crude oil stock you can switch over at amy time.

As for the guy who put 15/50 into his car you can generate engine failure problems by putting in too heavy a weight(15) of oil. Becuase your vehicle has certain clearances built into the rod bearings, piston bearing, oil pump, etc. You can generate too much oil pressure, cause oil pump gears to sheer if the temp is too cold and the oil is very thick. All of these things creazte more drag on your engine and cause lower fuel economy at the very least. Always look in you owners manual to see what range the manufacturer recommends for the season and conditions you are driving in.


Couldn't agree with you more Highwayman!! Most oil related engine failures are due to poor oil maint. If engine oil is changed at 3000 mile intervals you can expect long engine life. These claims that some auto maufactures are throwing around of 5,00 and even 7,000 mile oil change intervals is rediculous. Ask them what chnaged in their technology that made this amazing feet possible. They have bean counters who have found that it looks good because it "lowers" maintenince costs and that the average car owner doesn't keep a car for nearly as long as people used to. They are counting on the original consumer to trade out of the vehicle before any noticable damage to the engine is detected.

I figured I would post responses to both of you in one post. Highwayman you are correct in one area that the term synthetic is really meaningless in the US. In Europe synthetic REQUIRES the oil be from a group 4 base stock, nothing to do with the additives! In the US the LEGAL standard requires at least some group 3 base stock but can be mostly group 2 base stock, neither of which really fall into the traditional definition of synthetic.

The additive package is just that, it does not relate to synthetic or not. It provide protection once the oil is not capable of providing "Hydrodynamic Lubrication" (the metal parts float on a surface of oil) which usually happens when either a poor quility oil is used, the wrong grade or just extreme conditions. The additive package also has anti foaming and acid neutralizing agents. Most oil sludging is due to poor quality oil which usually doesn't have enough additives to continue to neutalize all the acids over the life of the oil service under certain conditions(like soccer moms wiith short trips and not fully warming up)

Certain synthetic oils marketed in the US do actually use group 4 base stocks. One in partucular is Castrol Syntec 0w30 which is made in Europe but required in most 2006 and up Mercedes engines.

The change to long life oils and extended drain intervals is not a cost savings idea from maintanence cost but it is for warranty. In the first 300 miles after an oil service the most contaminants are flashed out of the oil and these are the #1 cause of catalytic converter failures. Sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulfer lead to premature catalyst failure and the federal government is starting to require 150,000 mile warrantys on them.

The increase use of good quality oil and extended drain intervals has become more necessary to allow this long of a warranty. Many manufacturers do not have any requirement other than the basic SM and GF4 rating. Just about every oil on the market meets these ratings. Even the lowest ACEA rating, A1/B1 is better than this highest US rating. Look for at least A3/B3 or A3/B4 to get a good quality oil.

There is no requirement of using "Dino" oil for a period of time before switching to synthetic. Synthetic oil is "Dino" oil just better refined.

As a side note I just change my wife's B9 over to Castrol Syntec 5w30 at 40,000 miles and plan on changing every 6,000 miles with a premium filter. We bought it with 33,000 miles on it. My 1996 Legacy with 198,000 gets synthetic 10w30 and the oil consumption issue is gone and I go 6,000 miles between services.

[highwayman]

Sorry but I can't take credit for that 1st post Swootton (by pearlyb9), thats not mine & I'm actually a Valvoline oil guy personally (though theres nothing wrong w/Castrol).

[highwayman]

Couldn't agree with you more Highwayman!! Most oil related engine failures are due to poor oil maint. If engine oil is changed at 3000 mile intervals you can expect long engine life. These claims that some auto maufactures are throwing around of 5,00 and even 7,000 mile oil change intervals is rediculous. Ask them what chnaged in their technology that made this amazing feet possible. They have bean counters who have found that it looks good because it "lowers" maintenince costs and that the average car owner doesn't keep a car for nearly as long as people used to. They are counting on the original consumer to trade out of the vehicle before any noticable damage to the engine is detected.

The raised maintenance requirements have to do w/only one thing & thats the projected lower cost to own/maintain numbers. Do people honestly believe 100k tune-up & fluid changes are OK for the longevity of the vehicle? Unfortunately people do believe this stuff though & learn the hard way of how to maintain vehicles.