Hesitation but passed stall and lag test - SB9T.com
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Hesitation but passed stall and lag test

Hi guys, coming in to work today, my 07 started hesitating, and feeling as if it was going to stall at highway speed (60mph) but continued on. It did this twice as I was on the highway.

Getting off the highway and getting to the rural route I take after the highway I had no issues. Once I got on the road I take, it started hesitating again. No response to more throttle, and the second time it hesitated it died, no warning lights other than the R. Diff. Temp. light that has been flickering forever due to corrosion. I let it sit, tried my luck, and it fired up again. Made it another couple miles before hesitating a few more times and dying again.

Same process happened the rest of the trip in. I checked engine oil, it is slightly down and is due for its change, and I checked trans oil and it is a hair off "Hot Full" after running the gears and waiting a minute to check.

I then preformed the stall test in 2 manual and R and it was right at 2,500 RPM perfect. Then I did the lag test, average N->D was .98 sec and average N->R was .82 seconds.

One time when it was hesitating I did nearly mat the throttle down, resulting in a dull pop at the rear. I'm guessing there is a fuel delivery issue. The entire time running the tests, the B9 didn't hesitate or have any issues. I plan to have it towed shortly, but do I pursue my normal mechanic or the trans shop?

What other ideas do you guys have?
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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with no codes, I would check the fuel filter/delivery.

I replaced my main relay when the AC relay pooped out.

check for air leaks in and around the throttle.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, I was leaning towards fuel delivery as well. I called my friend at his shop and just had AAA come pick it up. I have zero time to deal with tracking it down much more than what I did. I spent 20 minutes running the tests and checking fluids, and I'm 48 emails behind now!

I'm hoping for something on the easy end like just the filter, baring that then the pump. Plugs are all new, fluids are all new, so I'm hoping for something simple since there were no CEL's involved.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Filter is in the tank on the fuel sending unit along with the pump, so...
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I kinda guessed it was all in one like most are now. Side note, I was low in gas, the light had just come on, and I filled it at the station right by work and it didn't stumble again during the 20 minutes of run time when testing it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Sounds to me as if there is a vacuum being pulled on the tank and it won't flow enough fuel for higher speeds. When you run lower speeds enough fuel is getting delivered. This happens on motorcycles quite a bit when the vent in the gas cap gets plugged. There is much more to the vents on these vehicles as they are a closed system. You could always try running it with a loose gas cap and see if the problem reoccurs. You may get a check engine light with the cap loose, but it might narrow down where you need to start looking.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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So, here is the update on this. My buddy kept the B9 at his shop all of Friday, Saturday, and tried to get it to hesitate today (Monday) as well. In the end, he couldn't get it to reproduce what it was doing to me, and the only code that appeared was that of having a "Key Code" error which he claimed the transmitter in the key is going bad, and that could possibly be causing some error.

Has anyone ever heard of that issue causing the car to stall out? And I'm guessing I'll need to grab a new key and reprogram it to the vehicle with the crazy Subaru code of opening doors and pressing the window or lock switches?
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Programming the transmitter to the car is going to be harder than doors and windows. It will take a well equipped locksmith. Lockmedic might be able to fill in more details (I think I see him here, but also on subaruoutback.org

If you think the transmitter is failing, I think I would either a) use the spare key or b) harvest the transmitter from the valet key.

There is a common issue on the H6 outback that fuel pump oring swells with age and prevents good fuel delivery. sputtering and stalling at highway speeds are the main (only?) symptom. I suggest researching that issue and replacing the oring if we have a similar design on our tribecas. They are just getting to the age that the H6 started seeing this issue (~ 10 years)
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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the o-ring problem was on non-filtered pump assemblies, with a short cap, i don't think i've seen one with filter fail in that manner, although changing the filter wouldn't hurt anything iirc they come with a new cap and o-ring

i just looked up our filter assembly and its different than first gen h6-3.0 thats in the outbacks
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staatus Quo View Post
So, here is the update on this. My buddy kept the B9 at his shop all of Friday, Saturday, and tried to get it to hesitate today (Monday) as well. In the end, he couldn't get it to reproduce what it was doing to me, and the only code that appeared was that of having a "Key Code" error which he claimed the transmitter in the key is going bad, and that could possibly be causing some error.

Has anyone ever heard of that issue causing the car to stall out? And I'm guessing I'll need to grab a new key and reprogram it to the vehicle with the crazy Subaru code of opening doors and pressing the window or lock switches?

Yes, I programed my new key FOB that way. It is allot "Pat your head and rub your tummy" type stuff, but it did work.
I do not know if you can do the key that way, but the FOB you can.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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As to the driving concerns, fuel pressure or volume could be a issue, but let me ask you, what type of air filter are you using?
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffytune View Post
Yes, I programed my new key FOB that way. It is allot "Pat your head and rub your tummy" type stuff, but it did work.
I do not know if you can do the key that way, but the FOB you can.
Agreed, FOB can be programmed that way, as detailed in the owner's manual. The transmitter chip in the key can't be programmed to the immobilizer without a trip to a locksmith or dealership as far as I know.

https://subaru.locksmithsdrm.com/sr-...t_key_info.pdf

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Old 05-23-2017, 02:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I believe you should take ALL your keys when setting the immobilizer.
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Sorry for the delay in this. So, the following week after posting this, the B9 was fine. Then, the week after, she was surging when getting up to highway speeds. And I could feel hesitation while at speed. As the tank of gas got lower and lower, it became worse and worse.

Jump to a quarter tank on Tuesday morning. I get off the highway, and am almost to the back road I take to work. The check engine light comes on along with the cruise light and TC light. Nothing happens but the normal hesitating. Then she stalls again. Fires right up, drives, starts shuddering and stalls again. I have it towed back to my buddies shop, and he has had it since Tuesday. The engine code was that it is running lean, but he said it is indecisive since they can't reproduce the stall, and that it seems to drive fine.

This leads me to one conclusion. I sometimes get gas from a small full service station right in my neighborhood. They have "Recreation fuel" which is ethanol free 91 (3.0D required). The first stalling issues came after that tank of gas, and this one, two tanks later came after getting gas from there again. It seems plausible to me that the 91 isn't used much since it is a neighborhood gas station, and not many people outside of my square mile neighborhood know of its, the ice cream shops, or the hair stylists existence. So, could old, or possibly water filled gas be my culprit? And I need to avoid Courtesy Auto?
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Why would you want to drive all the way from NY to Portland Oregon to my shop, Courtesy Automotive?
If you want to, I will be more then happy to repair your car tho.

Now, do not buy fuel there again, and do replace the fuel filter.
Stick with "Top Tier fuel" from here on out and you should be fine.

Home | Top Tier Gas
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I always find it economical to get my gas in Oregon! Lol. Yeah, drive in today with the fresh tank of fuel isn't surging anymore, but there is a slight hesitation still, but nowhere near as bad.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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At the age of your Tribeca, I would change the filter and pump if it was me. Getting into the tank just to change the filter on a 10 year old pump seems silly.
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