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Old 04-12-2017, 12:43 PM   #41 (permalink)
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well subaru claims that new platform is lighter, so the question is ho much lighter.
If this thing weighs 4k lbs or less empty, then a 2.4t with say 300hp/300tq would be a norm for a subaru, it won't set any speed records but it will move just as well as the old 2.5 did.
Most people in this category care more about mpg vs space, us enthusiasts are a different story and we are not the main target audience.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:44 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Oh, I agree. We are not the target audience.

EDIT: either way, getting a true 4x4 to replace the TB in the early 2020s while keeping my modified OB past 2030 is the most bang for the money option for me. The new Subaru 7 pax was a misfit in this scenario anyway and if I am not tempted, that much the better!
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:35 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I'm curious what traditional suv you want this to compete with? A Tahoe? Durango?
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:56 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I'm curious what traditional suv you want this to compete with? A Tahoe? Durango?
Well, yes, a Tahoe would be a good reference point in terms of towing and decent off-road capability in the appropriate trim. But that's me. Not that I see any Tahoes on trail, lol, but they can do a lot more than given credit for.

If Subaru are sincere in claiming that their primary audience is the typical Subaru driver who wants more room, then offroad, towing, and turbo 4s in big vehicles are probably non-issues.

Ultimately this is a very conservative approach. I hope it is good for Subaru, but there is nothing here to tempt me.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:26 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I did a lot of sitting in all different models of SUVs and CUVs this past fall to see which was roomier in a practical sense. The truck based SUVs just don't cut it, the frame intrudes too far into the cabin. And price, lol I won't even go there.
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:37 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I did a lot of sitting in all different models of SUVs and CUVs this past fall to see which was roomier in a practical sense. The truck based SUVs just don't cut it, the frame intrudes too far into the cabin. And price, lol I won't even go there.
I just moved from an 18 year old Jeep Grand Cherokee to a 9 year old Tribeca. I know the Jeep isn't a full frame type of design but prefer the CUV design. Don't need full off road capability. Also don't want something as big as a Tahoe. For the VERY LIMITED occasions where I will use the 3rd row seat it will work for me. I understand that's not the case for everyone and hope this new model will work for Subaru.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I did a lot of sitting in all different models of SUVs and CUVs this past fall to see which was roomier in a practical sense. The truck based SUVs just don't cut it, the frame intrudes too far into the cabin. And price, lol I won't even go there.
I'm curious where you landed. We are in the market in within the next 2 years. Current list is (kinda in order):

Subaru Ascent (I want to believe, I like how it looks. Probably will wait until 2019 model)
Honda Pilot
Toyota 4 runner
Toyota Highlander


The list ends up pretty much in pricing order because we want to lowest cost for the car that will meet our needs. Our needs are:

4 people, occasional friends for 3rd row
Car camping (up to 7-9 days)
Whitewater rafting hauling (multiday trips, probably means hauling a light trailer to get all the stuff)
Trailhead driving (colorado 14ers have some fairly tough roads, but not really more than the tribeca can handle. Certainly nothing more than an outback could handle)
Daily Driver for wife (means smaller, car like feel as much as possible while satisfying the other items)
7-10 year lifetime of car (Currently have an 08 tribeca, previous car we kept for 7 years)
Driver assist items (adaptive cruise control, assisted braking, all the stuff that makes is safer and prevents accidents)

Sometime I wonder about renting a Tahoe for the whitewater trips, but it's such a pain to do that. Probably more cost effective though...

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Old 04-13-2017, 08:58 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Well, the Ascent looks perfect for you. I would personally not consider a Pilot or a Highlander at all. As for the 4Runner, its off-road potential is obvious but I see no other advantage.

I guess the only concern would be how long the turbo 4 can last in a large vehicle. Guess much will depend on the latter's actual GVWR and on how it is driven and maintained.

The main reason the Ascent does not work for me is that it has no serious offroad potential. My modified OB gets me on almost all trails I want to drive but I am not sure I would be able to trust it for remote offroading past 2025 or so. Thus I want our TB replacement in 2020-22 to have serious off-road capability out of the box while also being a civilized, refined road trip vehicle, think Land Rover Discovery.

I never expected a Discovery style vehicle from Subaru, but an intriguing powertrain coupled with our Subaru-only habits could have lured me into an Ascent anyway, lol, leaving me to worry about offroad once the OB ages.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:01 AM   #49 (permalink)
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You should price an "suv" rental. Not cheap at all...
Our concern was interior space for 2 car seats and 4 adults comfortably along with associated daily outing gear so no kind offroading. We went with an odyssey.

My first choice for an suv would be a highlander awd. It may be big and boaty looking but it handles emergency maneuvers very well. Space is decent, definitely better than the pilot IMO.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:09 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I will reserve judgment on the offroading prowess of the ascent until the drive train is announced, but I do believe middleagesubie hits on a great point there are no really good people hauler SUVs. It's either a good 3 row or a good sport utility, it's rarely both, unless you really want to pay $$$.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:54 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I agree with you and I think that automakers simply do not have any incentive to do otherwise. The trail crowd is strictly a Wrangler/Toyota crowd; the rest of us, the odd ones, are way too few to be worth building a vehicle for.

I know people with Tahoes who are reluctant to go anywhere unless it is old, lifted, etc. There is no need for any of that. A stock Z71 Tahoe can handle any moderate and more than a few difficult trails while a stock Subaru cannot. But the perception of offroad as hardcore challenge-ridden trail conquest clouds peoples' judgement of what unpaved driving is 99% of the time.

I am sure the Ascent will handle dirt roads in all but impassible conditions very well. Ditto for beaches. But it has no trail potential. It adds a massive wheelbase and big footprint to the usual Subaru issues of no low range, poor angles, and insufficient ground clearance. A truck can partly compensate for a long wheelbase and huge footprint through a huge lift and solid, rigid frame that can take hits. There is nothing one can do about a big CUV.

And even so, the last thing I want to see on a Colorado mountain trail is a truck...never had issues with Wranglers but an F150 encounter on a single-lane trail is no fun.

EDIT: I highly doubt that air suspension would be an option. Plus, with this wheelbase and footprint, the Ascent would need at least 3" to get some trail capability (beyond the smoothest ones).
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:22 AM   #52 (permalink)
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A 4wd tahoe STARTS at $50k too so there is that as well.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:39 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Yup. Same for Land Rover Discovery, a far more refined as well as more capable machine than the Tahoe.

So long as the customer base accepts a turbo 4 in a large vehicle, the Ascent should be a success.

My preferences are a rare combo of features and thus irrelevant to automakers.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:51 PM   #54 (permalink)
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As for the turbo engines specifically, I am just not sold on them in non-performance applications.

I need a little convincing that a turbo engine can do well when subjected to brutal short hops on daily basis for many years, which is how kid haulers are used.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:32 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Having had an outback XT and my current legacy GT, they both have been reliable and don't seem to suffer from any issues related to short trips. That said, a new engine will have new issues.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:54 PM   #56 (permalink)
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A turbo engine with relatively low boost levels. My LGT stock topped out at 12 psi. It's now pushing 20 ish at 76k miles.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:16 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Guess we will see what they have conjured.

Personally, I would be much more interested in that engine in an FXT...

Any word on weights? You knew about the 2.4 beforehand.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:59 AM   #58 (permalink)
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going to car show tomorrow, so should get a few pics up on monday,
I will be in the market for an suv this size next year or so, thus far my choices are
LR4, X5, or maybe the new Atlas. This should last me a couple of years by that time Ascent should prove itself or flop time will tell.
I dont have a problem with turbo that much, new ecoboosts have been around for a while a seem to hold up well, same for audi engines.
My biggest issue is having 4 cylinders in general, here in a city they don't last as well as 6.
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:11 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleAgeSubie View Post
Well, the Ascent looks perfect for you. I would personally not consider a Pilot or a Highlander at all. As for the 4Runner, its off-road potential is obvious but I see no other advantage.

I guess the only concern would be how long the turbo 4 can last in a large vehicle. Guess much will depend on the latter's actual GVWR and on how it is driven and maintained.

The main reason the Ascent does not work for me is that it has no serious offroad potential. My modified OB gets me on almost all trails I want to drive but I am not sure I would be able to trust it for remote offroading past 2025 or so. Thus I want our TB replacement in 2020-22 to have serious off-road capability out of the box while also being a civilized, refined road trip vehicle, think Land Rover Discovery.

I never expected a Discovery style vehicle from Subaru, but an intriguing powertrain coupled with our Subaru-only habits could have lured me into an Ascent anyway, lol, leaving me to worry about offroad once the OB ages.

Thanks for the suggestions, we'll add the Discovery to the mix as well as the VW Atlas. This is very useful everyone! Only 1-2 years to research it all
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:41 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodik View Post
going to car show tomorrow, so should get a few pics up on monday,
I will be in the market for an suv this size next year or so, thus far my choices are
LR4, X5, or maybe the new Atlas. This should last me a couple of years by that time Ascent should prove itself or flop time will tell.
I dont have a problem with turbo that much, new ecoboosts have been around for a while a seem to hold up well, same for audi engines.
My biggest issue is having 4 cylinders in general, here in a city they don't last as well as 6.
I agree driving to see my girlfriend in Brooklyn the 6 cyl is nice
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