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Old 03-30-2017, 03:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawjadawg View Post
yet Subaru requires a "conditioner" in the coolant that contains some of the same type of materials. It's Subaru's solution to their very own head gasket issues.
Not exactly. To be accurate, "It's Subaru's solution to a very specific head gasket failure mode."

*** It is not Subaru's solution to *all* headgasket failure modes. Subaru never installed it, never offered an extended headgasket warranty, never recalled it, or offered a TSB - on 1996-1998 EJ25 DOHC's (and some 99's). Odd since Subaru did that for other EJ25's.

Why?

00+ are addressing *external* headgasket leaks
96-98 are *internal* leaks pushing exhaust gases into the combustion chamber.

EZ30 failures are typically the *internal* variety, which doesn't respond well to conditioners or additives.

If you have an external EZ30 headgasket coolant leak - the same conditioner for the EJ25 will work.

But either way - this isn't magic or subjective - it's simply a matter of variations in failure modes and what's actually happening physically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawjadawg View Post
If I understand the process correctly, these additives will work if the leak is a small area.
Nope - it's mostly a function of what I said above.

1000 degree high pressure, thousands of RPM's internal environment of a ICE is hard for an additive to push against. Stick your hand in there and you'll understand what I mean.

You are somewhat correct - a smaller internal breech can be limped along easier than a large one. And at initial failure EZ30's can grow worse very slowly so there's hope to extend that process.

It's just generally a loosing battle. But yes - of course someone who is financially desperate, makes bad decisions and lives month to month, or has a rusted out car not worth much money....sure, toss it in there. Those people are rarely asking for good advice and just live by whatever circumstances present in a given week.
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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.....Those people are rarely asking for good advice and just live by whatever circumstances present in a given week.
I guess I am the rare individual then. While I understand why things won't work, none of the above criteria applies to me. It comes down to costs and benefits to me. If the engine is on it's way out, I am going to give it a whirl just to see what happens.
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:57 AM   #23 (permalink)
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My son has our 06 Tribeca with 128K at college 4 hours away. Just for kicks I sent an oil analysis when he was back at spring break and had an oil change. At 100K I had sent one to Blackstone, trying to decide then if we were keeping the car, and they noted the sodium and potassium was slightly elevated and to watch it. Well this latest one is worse. Something, coolant, is obviously getting into the oil. The coolant when he was back almost a month ago was not looking like latte and it was changed a year ago when the 120K service was done. He "hasnt had time" to take the cap off and look at the coolant again!! There is no external leak but the car has always needed a slight top up of the overflow bottle before oil changes (every 6k). Mom is freaking out he will have to drive back when he graduates in May- 4 hrs. Im pretty sure the car will be fine (plus no doubt I will be the driver and mom and DS will be in other car). Should I have him put the subaru fluid conditioner or the bar leaks in? My subaru mechanic thinks the bar leak/Gm stuff is better.
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Old 04-05-2017, 08:29 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I wouldn't put anything other than the subaru stuff in. It's chemically made to prevent the electrolytic reaction that creates the external head gasket issue.

Most common failure for these H6 engines is a headgasket leak to the combustion chamber. This will manifest itself with overheating.

Loosing < 1 cup of coolant between oil changes is about normal from evaporation here in colorado.

Keep the coolant topped of and it will go 10's of k's without significant issues given the smallest of hints you currently have at a potential, but not probable, issue.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06b9beca View Post
I guess I am the rare individual then. .
ha ha, indeed, that was intended to be hyperbole. I probably over stated, there's certainly a wide range of circumstances in the world, one-size fits all solutions are rarely, widely helpful.

particularly if you're going to ditch the engine and not consider repair an option which is typical of EZ30's, the current engine becomes disposable. with a minor risk of exposing ATF, radiator, hoses to additional heat.
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Old 04-06-2017, 08:41 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default What are symptoms of "leaking head gasket"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpete View Post
Guys,

Any thoughts (good/bad) on this product?

https://barsleaks.com/product/head-gasket-repair/
This product is designed to deal with coolant leaks through the head gasket, primarily leaks to the outside of the engine or into a non-cylinder-compression portion of the post-combustion downstream exhaust.
Symptom-wise, are you referring to:
  1. coolant leaking out of the engine through the head-gasket, or of
  2. coolant getting into the oil or oil getting into the coolant, or
  3. coolant getting into the exhaust?
  4. Something else?
I have not researched Subaru's coolant additive, but I understand that it's common practice for most mainstream consumer vehicle assembly lines to include a little stop-leak in the initial coolant fill. Often it's a product containing Aluminum flakes, and is primarily intended to prevent/stop small nuisance leaks. A commonly used OEM product is available off-the-shelf in many auto-parts stores... I wish I remembered which one it is. The Aluminum is pretty durable under high heat conditions. Follow directions... I seem to recall that you're supposed to put the heater(s) on high for the initial period, and go hot-cold-hot a couple times, to avoid seizing valve movement or sealing the valves shut that flow into the heater cores. Aside from that caveat during install, I would consider that low-risk in your situation: remaining product tends to settle into nooks/crannies where its presence is not significantly detrimental.

It's likely that issue #1 would be handled by either Subaru additive or the Bars. I like the idea of starting with the Subaru product, then adding the Bars if that doesn't have an effect or doesn't completely address the problem.
Issue #2: that's an unknown to me, as to whether either product would work, or how well. But this is the riskiest symptom to approach. If you notice, Bars has an interesting answer with several warning bells, for what if you accidentally put it in your engine oil.
Issue #3: it depends on where/how it's getting into the exhaust, and on the sealing product's design. For example, an EGR cooler cross-leak might be "repairable" since it's low-pressure exhaust gas - especially at idle when you would be sealing it up with an additive.

Just my thots, FWIW.
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Old 04-06-2017, 05:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdelker View Post
I wouldn't put anything other than the subaru stuff in. It's chemically made to prevent the electrolytic reaction that creates the external head gasket issue.

Most common failure for these H6 engines is a headgasket leak to the combustion chamber. This will manifest itself with overheating.

Loosing < 1 cup of coolant between oil changes is about normal from evaporation here in colorado.

Keep the coolant topped of and it will go 10's of k's without significant issues given the smallest of hints you currently have at a potential, but not probable, issue.
He's going to get the subaru stuff and put it in. Will check another oil analysis later this year.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by grossgary View Post
ha ha, indeed, that was intended to be hyperbole. I probably over stated, there's certainly a wide range of circumstances in the world, one-size fits all solutions are rarely, widely helpful.

particularly if you're going to ditch the engine and not consider repair an option which is typical of EZ30's, the current engine becomes disposable. with a minor risk of exposing ATF, radiator, hoses to additional heat.
Lol, yeah....you forgot cheap ass, hardheaded turds....albeit some that never learn.

If I don't go above 3 bars this summer (sounds a bit cliché) I don't see the point in replacing this engine at all. My situation is under litigation so if I can get the same 2k JDM engine Mike did I'll jump on that if I win. Still, taking a chance with the Barr's might just be worth it at that point.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:14 AM   #29 (permalink)
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do you need to change the coolant each time you add stuff- Barrs or the Subaru fluid- or can you just keep adding conditioner???
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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You only add it to the coolant once, the when you change the coolant you add it again.
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:36 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cptplt View Post
do you need to change the coolant each time you add stuff- Barrs or the Subaru fluid- or can you just keep adding conditioner???
for nominal maintenance - any time coolant level is reduced and added - you add a corresponding amount to make up for the losses.

if you're just tossing !)* in to be cheap and run the thing into the ground, who cares what you do. you can add two bottles no big deal, so it's not necessary to drain/fill, but that's also going to depend on what is failing, how, and why, and conditions. With elevated levels of treatments - some cars will probably experience issues and others wouldn't depending on those variables.
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