Vibration under low Acceleration - Page 6 - SB9T.com
SB9T.com

Go Back   SB9T.com > Tribeca Technical > Drivetrain

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-20-2014, 10:51 AM   #101 (permalink)
Moderator Elite
 
Wiscon_Mark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 536
Default

I would just get Subaru ATF in there STAT. Don't go messing around with additives or any of that stuff.

They also overquoted you on the cost of the torque converter, IMO. I ran the part # through the Trademotion catalog and it came out at around $550 (American).
__________________
-Mark

2015 Dodge Charger AWD

2008 Subaru Tribeca Limited 7 passenger w/ Navigation


Former Subarus:
12 Impreza
03 Forester
95 Outback
Wiscon_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-01-2014, 11:53 AM   #102 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiscon_Mark View Post
I would just get Subaru ATF in there STAT. Don't go messing around with additives or any of that stuff.

They also overquoted you on the cost of the torque converter, IMO. I ran the part # through the Trademotion catalog and it came out at around $550 (American).
Hi guys... had the Subaru dealer flush all fluid and replace with spec oil ($210 CND). The shudder is still there. The dealer does not want to replace the torque converter, they want to replace the whole transmission with a rebuilt unit. The dealer said Subaru Canada will not help with the cost because it 117,000 km and that over warranty, but I raised the TSB and gave him a copy. His responded was that it is a USA TSB and does not apply to Canada...
I am going to try the anti-shudder additive as there is nothing to loose now.
Any advice from the members?
chostovs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2014, 02:40 PM   #103 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 5
Default

Curious if you have tried the additive yet.I hear LubeGard red is the one to use.
Could you let me know how it goes.
ray carvajal is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-01-2014, 05:26 PM   #104 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chostovs View Post
Hi guys... had the Subaru dealer flush all fluid and replace with spec oil ($210 CND). The shudder is still there. The dealer does not want to replace the torque converter, they want to replace the whole transmission with a rebuilt unit. The dealer said Subaru Canada will not help with the cost because it 117,000 km and that over warranty, but I raised the TSB and gave him a copy. His responded was that it is a USA TSB and does not apply to Canada...
I am going to try the anti-shudder additive as there is nothing to loose now.
Any advice from the members?

Have you had the front axles replaced? I have a vibe on light acceleration, but it seems to mainly happen at 40 mph. I have the tried rebalancing wheels. Next I'll replace the non-oem axle to see if it is a balance issue with it.
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 07:05 AM   #105 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: N Chicago Burbs
Posts: 696
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chostovs View Post
Hi guys... had the Subaru dealer flush all fluid and replace with spec oil ($210 CND). The shudder is still there. The dealer does not want to replace the torque converter, they want to replace the whole transmission with a rebuilt unit. The dealer said Subaru Canada will not help with the cost because it 117,000 km and that over warranty, but I raised the TSB and gave him a copy. His responded was that it is a USA TSB and does not apply to Canada...
I am going to try the anti-shudder additive as there is nothing to loose now.
Any advice from the members?
Rent an apartment in the US for a month and get it fixed in the states.
psygnal11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 07:21 AM   #106 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

TSB doesn't mean they will cover it under warranty, it's not the same as a recall. It just tells the mechanic what to look for, kinda like a list of 'common problems' we are developing here.
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 07:39 AM   #107 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default



Ah, interesting, there is a very clear diagnostic step to verify it's the torque converter. I would hope the shop would do the steps listed in this TSB:

TSB#16-74-09 5AT Torque Converter Shudder/Vibration 2008/09MY Tribeca

That is proof positive it's the torque converter that needs to be replaced. It shouldn't cost more than $100 to get them to run this diagnostic.


There is also FreeSSM. I know it has some access to the TCU, but I'm not sure if it can get these parameters. If you want to do this yourself, check out http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...r-ecm-tcu.html

Tom

Last edited by tdelker; 10-02-2014 at 07:42 AM.
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 07:48 AM   #108 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

Hmm.. Free SSM shows it has

1. Turbine revolution speed
2. Gear Position
3. Engine Speed


It does not seem to have lockup solenoid indicator current, but does have Lock up duty ratio.

It does not seem to have lockup solenoid pressure, but does have Line Pressure duty ratio.

Not sure how to translate the last two in to what the TSB is asking. FSM probably has the answer...
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 07:57 AM   #109 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by psygnal11 View Post
Rent an apartment in the US for a month and get it fixed in the states.
I work in Wash. DC 6 months of the year and may do that. Called a Subaru dealer in MD and seemed most helpful, bit for now the Dr. Tranny Shudder Fix worked

Chuck
chostovs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 08:06 AM   #110 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray carvajal View Post
Curious if you have tried the additive yet.I hear LubeGard red is the one to use.
Could you let me know how it goes.
Good news at least for now. I used Dr. Tranny Shudder Fix also sold as "Lubeguard"... no retailer had it in Ontario so I bought a tube from a tranny place for $15 (big mark-up), the tech there said they have good results with it.
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-250/Dr.+...t+Shudder+Fixx
http://www.amazon.ca/Lubegard-19610-.../dp/B0002JMLQU

I spoke with several transmission repair shop techs and they all seem to use this or similar products. They stressed you need to get the additive it as soon as it starts to shudder otherwise damage may occur to the TC.(not sure how and why)

Put it in 2 days ago and have been driving around a fair bit between 40 kph and 80 kph (50 mph) and no shudder yet. I used to be able to make the shudder start on command by modulating the gas pedal but can't now. And it was shudder a lot before the additive.

I will report to this list over time (in at 120,000 km). If I can get a year out of this I will be happy.

Chuck
chostovs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 10:06 AM   #111 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdelker View Post
Have you had the front axles replaced? I have a vibe on light acceleration, but it seems to mainly happen at 40 mph. I have the tried rebalancing wheels. Next I'll replace the non-oem axle to see if it is a balance issue with it.

As a follow up, bought a used Tribeca axle for $36 from subarupair used parts yesterday afternoon along with a new diff seal. They wouldn't sell me a new axle nut. They said no way you need it.

Replaced the one side that was clearly aftermarket (replaced by previous owner, inner cup was bare metal and didn't have the three indents like the subaru with green cups) and sure enough, the vibration at 55 is gone. Sweeeeeeet....

Took an easy going 2 hours. I used the FSM (attached section) and these instructions


http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...highlight=seal

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...oil-r-r-2.html for seal replacement. I used a small claw hammer to remove and drove it in with the old seal on the outside and a 32 mm socket on that.

I did go after the ball joint, as here in colorado they don't rust. Others in the NE or other salt road areas report bad luck doing this.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Front Drive Shaft.pdf (111.5 KB, 18 views)
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 07:40 AM   #112 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6
Default

What is the deal with these transmissions? My friend just trailered his 08 Tribeca down to me from his Oregon home because he can't get a straight answer from anyone in his home town of Roseburg, Oregon. He's had zero problems with his Tribeca since buying it new. At a 120,000 miles the takes it in for its second trans service, first was at 60,000 miles, and the minute he leaves the shop he has a torque converter shudder that no one can get rid of and can't explain why it developed after a trans service. He made them flush it the next day and that didn't fix it. I figure they put the wrong oil in it so I have done three services on it, driving it about 20 miles between each one and I have added a tube of Dr. Tranny's anti shudder to the first and third service. There is also a filter in the pan that know one has, not even the dealer. They only have the inline screw on one thats in the wheel well. It has been changed twice as well. Shudder is still there at 1600 rpm and at 40 to 43 mph at a low acceleration.
Wes Hawkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 07:48 AM   #113 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

Check the axles, make sure they are OEM subaru. Green cup with indents on the inside near the tranny. This is THE most common cause for shudder under light load.

Are you using Subaru ATF-HP? That's the only official fluid, and the only thing I would use, but others use different fluid. You can get a full exchange by pulling the line at the transmission cooler (details here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...smission+fluid)

I suspect axle, did he have that changed at the same time? Best way to tell if its the axle is to put it in manual shift mode and change gears but maintain speed. If the shudder doesn't go away, it's not related to the torque converter or transmission.
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 08:11 AM   #114 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6
Default

He has had nothing done to this car except routine service. Has OEM axles. This shudder did not occur until immediately after a trans service. At the rpm and speed that I mentioned if you give it just a little more throttle and it downshifts the shudder goes away. Its acts like the clutches in the torque converter are slipping and when it downshifts the torque converter clutch releases. After he had the first trans service and had this shudder occur he took it to another shop and had a flush done and it still shuddered. I'm starting to think the first shop put the wrong oil in it and damaged the torque converter and I'm going to have to install a torque converter in it. Oh and yes I am using only the recommended Subaru trans oil. The best discription of the shudder I can give is it is like driving over a cattle guard or a rumble strip at a slow speed.

Last edited by Wes Hawkins; 12-18-2014 at 08:15 AM.
Wes Hawkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 09:11 AM   #115 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

"The best discription of the shudder I can give is it is like driving over a cattle guard or a rumble strip at a slow speed"

Just a comment - this is exactly how mine felt before I replaced the front axle. Please do look at the axles up front and make sure they both have green cups on the transmission side. If not, they have been replaced. Very usual for subaru axles boots to last 120k miles.

They should look like this:

tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 09:29 AM   #116 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6
Default

I'll check but I'm sure they are original and don't know why they would go out after having a trans service done.
Wes Hawkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 09:43 AM   #117 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

Coincidences happen.

On the driving test, don't give more throttle, just push the gear selector over in to manual mode and downshift and see what happens.

Is it only happening during lock-up, before, after?

FreeSSM and a cable will let you see what the transmission is doing when you get the shutter.
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 09:59 AM   #118 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6
Default

I'm waiting to see if the local foreign auto parts store can locate the filter that is in the trans then I will put it back together and give it another test drive. It feels like it shudders after the converter is locked up. That is the only time it does it, at that speed of 40 to 43 mph and 1500 to 1600 rpm. Any rpm or speed out of that range and it won't shudder and the rpm and the speed have to both be in that range at the same time for it to do it. I've been a ASE auto tech for almost 40 years, working in several dealerships and out of my home for over 28 years and I've seen some weird stuff and some really strange coincidences but if this is axles it would be at the top of the list of coincidences.
Wes Hawkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 10:27 AM   #119 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,327
Default

"40 to 43 mph and 1500 to 1600 rpm" If this is 100% true, then it is the torque converter, but why wouldn't it shudder in other gears right after lockup?

The original issue with some torque converters on the 08:
Number: 16-74-09
Date: 03/18/09
Applicability:
2008~09MY Legacy/Outback 2.5L Turbo, 5AT and 3.0L, 5AT
2008~09MY Tribeca 3.6L, 5AT Subject:
5AT Torque Converter Shudder/Vibration Introduction
If you encounter a vehicle that has a shudder/vibration which could be felt in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear during slight acceleration, it may be caused by the transmission torque converter during lockup operation. A countermeasure was made to the final machining process of the sliding surface for the lock up clutch to provide more stabilization and eliminate the shudder/vibration.
Countermeasure in Production
tdelker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 11:08 AM   #120 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6
Default

I know its the weirdest thing and why wouldn't it shudder during the first 120,000 miles and only start after a trans service. Makes me suspect of the wrong trans fluid being installed. Well I also just got a call from the import auto parts store, the filter is only available with the 800 dollar valve body. Is that not the dumbest thing ever.
Wes Hawkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Designed & Powered by Domain Architect